A. Introduction: Interview – About the conditions of the pilgrimage

 

 ·         Where does this pilgrimage begin and what is the destination?

o   The path begins in the mountains of southern India, in the Bodhi Zendo, a Buddhist meditation center that is led by Catholic priests, Jesuits. - The destination of the route is Assisi in central Italy, the hometown of Saint Francis.

·         It's a long way. That could be around 10,000 kilometers.

o   According to Google Maps the direct route is 9,041 KM. But there will certainly be more, as there will be some voluntary and involuntary detours.

·         That sounds like a lot. How much time did you plan for it?

o   There is no time planning for the entire route. Walking should be contemplative - so I will be more slow on the way. My route sounds special, but it should be walked comfortably. Certainly, many nurses or waitresses in busy street cafes cover more kilometers every day than I do and they have to be very concentrated.

·         Isn't this route a little too difficult at your age?

o   Why? I'm sixty now. Genetically, humans are said to have a life span of 120 years. So I've just come to halfway and still feel pretty fit.

·         But won't your health suffer and your fitness eventually wane? All the hardships? What you're saying sounds a little too boastful.

o   For a long time I have kept myself flexible with a little yoga and try not to exaggerate anything - but also not to fear anything categorically. Fear and fitness have a lot to do with attitude. But it is also not the most important goal to necessarily have to arrive in Assisi. The experiences on the way are more important. So if there really are weaknesses or problems, then I will see what life offers. I am trusting into the goodness of the providence.

·         Ah, according to the saying “The way is the goal”. What are your expectations for the pilgrimage?

o   I would like to work on two things: to become more pure within and to rest in the Now. Whatever happens along the way, I want to accept it as it unfolds and to have as few expectations as possible. I reckon that in the right time what happens will be good and useful in a deeper way.

·         Do you think that this will be a longer Sunday afternoon walk where everything will go nicely?

o   Hopefully not! I look forward to all sorts of unexpected surprises, including some adventures. That's what makes it interesting. My trust in Divine Providence has grown in me during previous pilgrimages (Trier-Fatima / Portugal and London-Rome). Therefore the expectations of the external conditions of the path are very open. In other words: I can't help but trust that many blessed encounters and experiences will be given to me.

·         Aren't you idealizing a little too much? You yourself know how quickly noble resolutions go down the drain when essential needs of the body getting affected. Not sleeping properly for 3 days or drinking little or poor food - good resolutions are quickly lost!

o   That's correct. There are still fears and weaknesses in me.

·         And still you dare to do it?

o   I know that sounds really a bit crazy – but in a positive way: Because it is important that we repeatedly experience powerlessness or failure on our way. I mean that very seriously and even recommend that one willingly accepts it - at least in the second moment. It needs to be like this if one wants to move forward internally. From my own experience I can say that powerlessness and failure only “break” the superficial needs and my greedy but limited EGO. Whenever I have accepted the powerlessness and failure with just a spark of confidence, wondrous, wholesome realities revealed themselves internally – externally good things occurred as well.

·         I suppose that thoughts from the Christian belief in crucifixion and resurrection also flow into it!?

o   Exactly. But also in other religions or philosophical or psychotherapeutic ideas one can come across the claim that the superficial, acquired EGO has to be overcome in order to experience the deeper, more sacred realities in oneself.  Often serious illnesses and other forms of suffering "have to" occur so that the superficial nature in a person is broken down and he can have indescribably beautiful experiences in his own depth through the suffering he has lived through.

·         Oh well. But I want to ask a little more specifically. What would you do if you were suddenly attacked by criminals?

o   Sorry. The question would have preoccupied me earlier. Today I shrug my shoulders rather helplessly, because for me such a question expresses the fact that people prefer to play up negative horror news instead of soberly seeing that there is something good, pure, holy, friendly in every person. - You can practice looking at strange, frightening people in such a way that you trust them to invite you to their home and show noble hospitality. Do you understand the "trick"? Instead of signaling to the other that I trust them to do bad things, I signal to them my willingness to accept their withheld friendship. Of course, courage is part of such an attitude. But once you've tried it, it'll be easier the next time. At some point it happens that potential villains feel from afar that something different, better, more noble is to be experienced here than any trickery victim games.

·         Is it really that easy? Be honest please!

o   What can I say!? Right from the start of our lives, we have been shaped by some exaggerated concern on the part of our parents and are also caught by current waves of fear. It doesn't have to be. There is a saying: "Better well-known misfortune than unknown happiness". In fact, rethinking to be more confident is not easy if you only try to do it externally. On the other hand, such a rethinking happens automatically when one discovers the roots of these fears within and observes their reality neutrally without judgment. This is one of the precious fruits of mindfulness meditation.

·         Good. You can really do something about your fears and the search for the inner healing reality may also work. Nevertheless: Jesus also experienced that he was forsaken by God. That is why I say that arrogance shines through in your plans.

o   Oh. - But good. If that is the case, then it becomes all the more clear that when I asked about basic trust in divine life, I too have reached a point where there is no turning back. Before I made the final decision on this trip, I suddenly had no luck in professional matters, for example, even though I had made sincere efforts. My life has been quite changeable up to now anyway.

·         Ah, then maybe this adventurous pilgrimage is an escape?

o   Hm. Maybe in a certain way. In any case, I suspect that will give my life an even more serious meaning - to shape my personal YES in life with more devotion. Last year in Goa, a successful German entrepreneur asked me what I am good at. She wanted to help me and encourage me. I already thought of some things in which I have strengths. But suddenly I said “being poor - I'm good at being poor”. Indeed, Saint Francis inspired me to let go of external certainties and to experience God's providence in return. And Vipassana meditations (according to Goenka) let me experience how inner knots are loosened and made me freed of various desires and aversions. And now in the experience of Zen it becomes clear to me that being in Nirvana or heaven simply means being empty and free inside and therefore experiencing deeper, divine, eternal, natural realities. So poverty - not involuntary misery - is good and even necessary.

·         What exactly does it look like if you get sick?

o   I actually fear that more than grim-looking people. But thanks to the regular meditation, the mindfulness of the body has also increased and it is easier to recognize if there is something wrong physically right from the beginning. Of course, I want to make sure that I always drink enough good water - sleep enough - have enough warm clothes to wear in an emergency. If I do have to lie flat, I have no choice but to entrust myself to Providence and trust in the helping angelic hands. I want to avoid that, of course, but if it does happen, it will – hopefully in retrospect - in unexpected ways, produce all sorts of good insights and fruits. - I know that sounds idealized again! Oh well. The problem is constantly our expectations that things should look this way or that. Let us rather leave enough chances that life will guide us on the right path despite the inconvenience.

·         How do you think people will react to you?

o   Predominantly curious-interested-helpful. I expect many good encounters. On the one hand because of the regional traditions of hospitality; on the other hand, meditating has dissolved some old knots in me, through which I used to exert more distrust and hidden pressure on some other people. At the same time, I have developed deeper trust and goodwill in the good of my fellow human beings. There will certainly be difficult and suspicious encounters from time to time, but in principle I expect to look into warm, grateful faces when I say goodbye.

·         How do you finance this trip?

o   Not at all. The savings are now as good as used up. I hope to receive a few donations so that I can buy a new toothpaste, etc. if necessary. For the most part, I am dependent on the benevolence of the people on whose door I will knock.

·         Sorry, that sounds haughty again, even arrogant: You come and claim the hospitality of people who may serve you their best chicken for your meal and you think that they will be grateful to you when they say goodbye!

o   Hoho! It sounds really bold. I think my hosts will rarely have this attitude. There are two levels on which one can evaluate such encounters. One relates to material exchange. In fact, there are many generous hosts on one side and the pleading taker on the other - that is me. From a material point of view, it actually looks like a one-way street. But I don't come with “empty” hands either. On my previous pilgrimages I had acquired the attitude of actively feeling where and how I can be useful while on the move: It can be simple gardening or field work or collecting rubbish along my way or ... Heaven knows! When attitudes are right, Providence sends enough opportunities to righteously enjoy my daily bread. I also have magic items and songs with me to give my donors a thank-you-experience. Then there is also the intellectual and spiritual level on which host and guest exchange ideas: Many hosts will certainly be proud of the fact that they give shelter to an exotic long-distance hiker.

·         And your part?

o   I want to be a good listener. In particular, that means sensing any worries people may have and somehow conveying my confidence in the good in life and the good in themselves. Maybe even pray with them. At least later I will do so, after having left their house.

·         Do you think that this journey can change anything else?

o   Thanks for this question. In fact, I “dedicate” this trip and this blog to basic trust in the good in life. I would particularly like to respond to the fears that have spread during the corona pandemic. It is not the virus but the fear of the virus that has become the real problem. Fear is a basic human problem. Due to the corona fear, lockdowns could be justified with monstrous restrictions. Suffering that can no longer be healed and interpersonal hatred has arisen in some families and between friends. Fear first destroys the humane and finally the human being. Father Amasamy, Zen master and founder of Bodhi Zendo, mentions in his book “Save the Many Beeings” that fear always causes evil. "Fear makes you bad!" - It becomes even clearer: A person who tries to exclude from his life the reality of having to die inevitably becomes evil himself. Therefore I also dedicate this pilgrimage to be a sign against fear but trusting in the goodness of the life deeply.

Fr. Amasamy SJ

·         What is the biggest challenge for you on the way? When would you say that the goal of your journey has failed?

o   The destination of the journey, Assisi, is the outer destination. I would love to get there and feel at home in the end. But the outer goal is actually irrelevant. The bigger challenge is to be constantly aware of what is going on inside of me. So I will try to experience the journey as a continuous meditation. A long way. Hopefully 10,000 kilometers will be enough. - The trip would have failed if, in the long run, I will be more concerned about where I will sleep and who will give me something to eat. - But as mentioned: Failure is a great chance that something wrong will break in us and that something truer will unfold in us.

·         How would you like to “be” when you arrive in Assisi or when you finish this pilgrimage?

o   In the last 20 months, the main part of my everyday life consisted of sitting meditation, first in the Goenka tradition and since half a year Zazen in the tradition of Master Soto. It's always about concepts like emptiness, enlightenment, awakening, being realized. For me, the first goal is inner cleansing: Disco­ver and observe old fears, desires, anger, longings, etc. and let this "knot salad" dissolve. The other goal is to be more “awake” or to linger in the “Here and Now”. In the end I would like to have come a good deal closer to the inner Buddha or the inner Christ - which is probably very similar.

·         What are you particularly looking forward on this journey?

o   A nice question. I suspect that I will see many happy children's faces who curiously crowd around me and want to experience something from this stranger. I'm going to have some little magic tricks with me and I want to memorize some nice old folk songs because I suppose people like that and then they show me their joy.

·         And what about the languages?

o   Nowadays you can speak into your mobile phone and a app translates it with a friendly voice in the local tongue. Using and reading body language and some standard expressions of the locals should be memorized anyway. Ah, by the way, foreign language learning is said to be one of the most effective preventive measures against Alzheimer's.

·         Perhaps there are people who would like to accompany you on a part of this journey. Would that be possible?

o   Hm! Maybe. First, the rules must be clearly communicated. If someone needs too much protection or provision, then that doesn't fit. It would also not be appropriate if someone saw this more as a sporting challenge. But if someone has more trust than fear of the unknown, and if someone is good at slowing down, then a common journey might be interesting.

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